Sidestand

General spannery stuff
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snapdragon
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Sidestand

Post by snapdragon »

on my way back from a bimble round the Cotswolds, pulled over for a ciggie, hopped back on, started up, into gear, CLUNK!!! damm!! Kicked stand (is that why they call it that?) went through procedure again, Clunk again, and no tools!!! poked, prodded, switch was moving ok!! BUT The lug on the sidestand that's supposed to hit the switch was missing it!! At this point (of course) it started raining :evil:
I called out the roadside assist (thank you Carole Nash insurance :D ) and an hour or so later SOS motorcycle rescue chap arrived and tightened the stand nut bless him. [/waffle]
[technical Q] should I(as advised) hit the lug with a hammer? I don't think the stand is bent at all (yet)and not sure if buying a replacement would help, maybe it's the frame bracket part? maybe just changing a washer for thinner one? any ideas would be most welcome
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weirdo
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Re: Sidestand

Post by weirdo »

Er.... stop smoking ?? :lol: :lol:
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Re: Sidestand

Post by Treffynnon »

Just short the switch.
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Re: Sidestand

Post by kev »

if you want to bend the tab that pushes against the plunger it would be wise to heat it up first as a whack with a hammer if its cold could snap it off so heat it up till cherry red and bend it with pliers or a gentle tap do this with the side stand removed of course then a quick repaint around the burnt area and job done 8)
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Re: Sidestand

Post by shebee »

Or short the switch, remove stand and bungie a Breeze block on the rack? :roll:
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snapdragon
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Re: Sidestand

Post by snapdragon »

kev wrote:with the side stand removed of course then a quick repaint around the burnt area and job done
two things I wouldn't have thought about - thanks kev, you just know how technical(not) I am
shebee wrote:Or short the switch, remove stand and bungie a Breeze block on the rack? :roll:
:lol: :lol: and wheelie down t'road?
ah that 'short switch' is way beyond me, wire a household plug is about my limit
I was sorta thinking bulk up the 'tab' with a little plate and some fixing wire so it hits the button :oops:
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Bear of Little Brain
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Re: Sidestand

Post by Bear of Little Brain »

When I bought my Rappie last year, I brought it home in a trailer. After unloading it, it wouldn't start, although it was ridden into the trailer. That was due to the sidestand switch just being missed by the sidestand lug - something must have given in transit (actually it was a horse box, not a Transit :? . I think it was the actual bracket that had given in transit (it definitely looks slightly bent). From my limited engineering knowledge, I thought better of trying to bend anything back (as mentioned above, doing things to cold metal is not recommended, and heating will undo any heat treatment, not that I think any of it is heat treated).
I also noticed that the stand had worn where it strikes/meets the mounting bracket such that when it was raised it was higher than it would have been when new. I figured that this could also be putting undue strain on the switch itself as the switch could be pushed to the end of its travel and end up taking all the loading from the sidestand springs, i.e., the switch became the sidestand stop (I hope this makes sense). There was also some wear on the mounting bracket where the sidestand rests against it. Oh, and the sidestand pivot mounting had splayed out (tightening the bolt fixed that, though).
Anyway, I ended up: cutting off the part of the flange that should have actuated the switch, but leaving some of it in place; making a neat (?) little flange in mild steel (from a cardboard "pattern"), but larger than the original so that it would have some leeway for further bending of the mounting bracket (and allow for me getting it a bit wrong); then, for the price of a couple of packs of beer, had a friendly local metalwork company weld it into place onto and behind the existing flange (behind in relation to the switch – so it was further away from the switch). Oh, I'd cadged the mild steel from the metalwork people beforehand.
They also filled the worn part of the sidestand so that the switch could just be a switch again. (Actually, I had asked them to overfill the worn section so that I could file it down to suit but, being professionals, they filled it, filed it to the stand profile, and sprayed it black for me. Fortunately, it did the job just fine.)
Sorry, I don't have any piccies (no camera). Still, I hope this helps. I suppose my point is to check out the whole arrangement: stand, mounting bracket, and switch, especially that the switch has a little additional movement available after the stand is up or else it is under constant additional strain via the stand spring (the switch doesn't have to be fully home, it operates before that - there again I used a cheapo meter to check continuity, so I knew where it was operating).
Sorry to be so long-winded.
Thinking about it, that was my first posting here, when I had even less idea how these things worked. So, thanks to those that helped me out then :)
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snapdragon
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Re: Sidestand

Post by snapdragon »

Thanks Bear, great description 8) if I can find a similar workshop that would be the aim, in the meantime I'm off to pop her on the paddock stand and check what hits where :wink:
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Bear of Little Brain
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Re: Sidestand

Post by Bear of Little Brain »

BTW, the reason that I had my little plate/flange/lug/tongue/thingy welded behind the existing one was that, if I still had problems actuating the switch, I could have had a disc brazed onto the front or could have taken a file to the stand or its mounting bracket (I also figured that putting it in front would only have caused potential problems). Either way - disc or file - I would have been able to give a little more "push" onto the switch (hence actuating it sooner). Being me, I'd have gone for the brazing. As I said, I didn't actually need to do any of that, but at least I planned for it (unlike most of my life :roll: ).
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Bear of Little Brain
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Re: Sidestand

Post by Bear of Little Brain »

Here is a photo of my sidestand mod (if the link works!). The problem was that the bracket on which the stand pivots had bent outwards so far that the flange missed the switch. I made the flange extension out of mild steel, removed some of the existing flange from the sidestand, and had the new piece welded as shown. (I didn't want to try to straighten out the "bending", since I think that may have only served to weaken the metal even further.)

http://img855.imageshack.us/i/1000031m.jpg/

Oh, if you decide to do something similar you should also check for wear in the region where the sidestand stop (that triangular tang that points down from near the top of the photo) meets the sidestand. Mine had worn a dent in the sidestand (where you can see an odd little orange-pink "spot" in the photo), with the effect that the stand went up further than it should and hence the flange pushed the sidestand switch well past the point at which the switch operated. In fact, on mine, I think that it had actually become so worn that the sidestand switch may have reached the end of its travel and had been taking some of the spring loading.
Anyway, I had some weld put in the dent and filed down flush to make good the wear.

This seems clear enough to me but, then, it would. So, please ask if it doesn't make sense to you.
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Bear of Little Brain
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Re: Sidestand

Post by Bear of Little Brain »

Oh, I was hoping I'd get some kind of thumbnail of the photo. Still, the link seems to work.
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snapdragon
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Re: Sidestand

Post by snapdragon »

Bear of Little Brain wrote:...//... The problem was that the bracket on which the stand pivots had bent outwards so far that the flange missed the switch..........//..............
Yup I reckon thats what happened with mine too, possibly strapped down too far by the bloke on a ferry
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Bear of Little Brain
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Re: Sidestand

Post by Bear of Little Brain »

I've dug out a few photos taken prior to fixing the sidestand switch problem, and uploaded them to ImageShack:

The first shows the tang missing the switch. In part, this was because the pivot bolt was too loose, giving excessive sideways sloppiness to the stand.
http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/6226/p10100261.jpg
Tightening it up helped a little, but the switch was still well off-centre, as shown here.
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/6818/p1010029x.jpg
While looking at this image, note the hollowed out section on the outside of the stand itself. This is where the mild steel has been dented/worn away by the weight of the bike when at rest on the stand. I had that depression filled with weld as well, thereby reducing the angle of lean and any tendency to topple over.

Finally, this image tries to show the wear on the sidestand and the corresponding stop on the chassis, which determines how far up the sidestand goes. Unfortunately, the photo does not show this very well, because the foreground is out of focus, but I think you can see the damaged/worn areas.
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8180/p1010017yw.jpg
Of course, as it wears it also tends to push the sidestand switch further and further into itself. At the limit, it ends up with the switch doing part of load bearing from the sidestand spring.
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snapdragon
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Re: Sidestand

Post by snapdragon »

Thanks for the detail info Bear, having had another moment yesterday (moment=sitting in a lay-by for an hour waiting for someone to fetch me a spanner :suspect: ) with the stand, I believe I'm going to have to go for the extended fix.

In the meantime I'm loading a spanner into the tail pack, and I've ductaped a penny to the flange .. :oops: ... yes I know it sounds weird, but it was what I had on hand and helps in the hitting-the-button action
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