Non starting 1000

[shebee]

I had one go on mine too, i think they are 3 pin not the usual 2... i will ask the boss on his return from work if he remembers where we got it from


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[Bear of Little Brain]

Short version: Scrub the relay socket connections, the relay spade connectors, and the fuses and fuseholder contacts with petrol to clean off the varnish-coloured grease/contact protection gunge.

Long version: Can't tell from the thread whether you've fixed this yet, but I just had a similar (?) problem. The bike has been in the garage all winter and half of autumn, but it was due its MoT. I knew the battery was getting near the end of its life (six years-ish and noticeable light dimming on tick-over even though it did start the bike) so fitted a nice, fully charged battery. All went well and it got to the MoT and back, all starting and running just fine. Went to take it for a spin on Saturday. Started immediately after getting it out, but then shut it off to close up the garage. Then it would not start: the neutral light just went dim, just like a dead battery. But it had just started and the battery was new… Turning the ignition key on and off then produced sometimes a start, sometimes nothing. But I could hear the fuel pump working and its light was going out (other than when there was nothing happening). I took the seat off and could hear and feel various relays operating. To cut a long story short, pulling one of the relays out of its socket (the small relay on the right of that row) revealed some very gummed-up looking socket and relay spade contacts. I suppose this gunge was originally intended to protect the contacts from moisture ingress, but it had the colour of old varnish and didn't look at all right. So I scrubbed it off with a stubby paint brush and petrol.
However, that did not fix the problem but it did get me wondering. So I checked out the fuse box. Yuck. Just the same. If I remember correctly, just waggling the rearmost fuse enabled me to repeatedly start the bike (but I may be wrong and the manual is not to hand in order to make sense of this). Anyway, more petrol and scrubbing of all the fuses ensued and – after giving the petrol time to evaporate (!) – I took her for a 30 mile blast with no problems.
Now, my bike is a year 2000 model, so that "grease" has had plenty of time to go off. It has under 17,000 miles on it and lives in a garage so has not had cause to have had a lot of work other than normal maintenance, so I've had no reason to fiddle with things like the fuses and relay connections. Until now. Anyway, I'll be going through all the wiring next to see if there are other connections with this gunge on them.
Of course, being me, I had to check out various info on silicone grease and vaseline/petroleum jelly for connector "protection" and the difference between them and contact "lubricants". It turns out that all are, fundamentally, insulators, but the contact lubricants are formulated such that they do not form a film but do fill the microscopic roughness:
http://www.klueber.com/ecomaXL/files/Ke ... ntacts.pdf
I've put vaseline around the battery terminals to prevent corrosion there but I'll have to think about quite what to use elsewhere. Hmm…
Hope this helps.

Update April 19: Spoke/wrote too soon. The problem is back. Looks as if I'll have to start faffing about with relays, then. Ho, hum…

[dirtydog]

Shebee- it's a 5 pin instead of the normal 4 pin, close but not close enough lol the Sucati ones appear to be similar but I haven't confirmed this yet

Bear- there's no sign of any gunk on any of the connectors plus I gave them all a blast with contact cleaner and a scrub with one of the kids little paint brushes

[shebee]

Oops yes sorry, my person who can count says we got ours off ebay but he cannot supply a link it was several years ago


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[dirtydog]

Thanks for checking

[Miz]

I think I may have this finally sussed out, I think the problem is the main relay is faulty. So now on the hunt for one.

What do you mean by the main relay?

Does it have a number on the wiring schematic?

Also, remember, a relay is only a switch, so you can always link out the contacts (remove relay, make up a wire with crimp connectors on each end and plug this into wiring loom), would rule out the relay from your search.

[dirtydog]

It's the yellow ignition relay under the seat

[Spyke]

Short version: Scrub the relay socket connections, the relay spade connectors, and the fuses and fuseholder contacts with petrol to clean off the varnish-coloured grease/contact protection gunge.

Long version: Can't tell from the thread whether you've fixed this yet, but I just had a similar (?) problem. The bike has been in the garage all winter and half of autumn, but it was due its MoT. I knew the battery was getting near the end of its life (six years-ish and noticeable light dimming on tick-over even though it did start the bike) so fitted a nice, fully charged battery. All went well and it got to the MoT and back, all starting and running just fine. Went to take it for a spin on Saturday. Started immediately after getting it out, but then shut it off to close up the garage. Then it would not start: the neutral light just went dim, just like a dead battery. But it had just started and the battery was new… Turning the ignition key on and off then produced sometimes a start, sometimes nothing. But I could hear the fuel pump working and its light was going out (other than when there was nothing happening). I took the seat off and could hear and feel various relays operating. To cut a long story short, pulling one of the relays out of its socket (the small relay on the right of that row) revealed some very gummed-up looking socket and relay spade contacts. I suppose this gunge was originally intended to protect the contacts from moisture ingress, but it had the colour of old varnish and didn't look at all right. So I scrubbed it off with a stubby paint brush and petrol.
However, that did not fix the problem but it did get me wondering. So I checked out the fuse box. Yuck. Just the same. If I remember correctly, just waggling the rearmost fuse enabled me to repeatedly start the bike (but I may be wrong and the manual is not to hand in order to make sense of this). Anyway, more petrol and scrubbing of all the fuses ensued and – after giving the petrol time to evaporate (!) – I took her for a 30 mile blast with no problems.
Now, my bike is a year 2000 model, so that "grease" has had plenty of time to go off. It has under 17,000 miles on it and lives in a garage so has not had cause to have had a lot of work other than normal maintenance, so I've had no reason to fiddle with things like the fuses and relay connections. Until now. Anyway, I'll be going through all the wiring next to see if there are other connections with this gunge on them.
Of course, being me, I had to check out various info on silicone grease and vaseline/petroleum jelly for connector "protection" and the difference between them and contact "lubricants". It turns out that all are, fundamentally, insulators, but the contact lubricants are formulated such that they do not form a film but do fill the microscopic roughness:
http://www.klueber.com/ecomaXL/files/Ke ... ntacts.pdf
I've put vaseline around the battery terminals to prevent corrosion there but I'll have to think about quite what to use elsewhere. Hmm…
Hope this helps.

Hmm, great post Bear, thanks for sharing. I'd never used it but I wondered if "dielectric grease" might be the thing we sought, given that I didn't actually know what dielectric means in this case (it could conceivably be interpreted to mean it copes with AC and DC!) but a little research soon enlightened me: http://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_v ... grease.htm

I found an interesting download explaining the lubrication of electrical contacts - http://www.klueber.com/ecomaXL/files/Ke ... ntacts.pdf

I'll put "relay maintenance" on my To Do list (quite far down)!

[dirtydog]

Sorry, not been on in a little while (forgot my password again ). Anyway the non starting is now a thing of the past, turn the key and every thing lights up as it should

It was the relay, I bought a replacement on eBay for about £15 delivered. The replacement is this one

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171747621938? ... EBIDX%3AIT

Although they don't seem to have any left now but I've put the link as it shows what other models the relay fits

Edit: these are the models listed in the eBay ad

Ducati 600 SS `95/97
Ducati 748 `99
Ducati 748 `99 SPS
Ducati 748 R `00
Ducati 748 SP, Biposto
Ducati 750 SS `91
Ducati 750 SS `92
Ducati 750 SS `94
Ducati 750 SS i.e.
Ducati 851 `91-`92
Ducati 888 Superbike `92
Ducati 888 `93->
Ducati 900 SS `92
Ducati 900 SS F.E. `98
Ducati 900 SS inj. `99
Ducati 900 SS/SL `94-`97
Ducati 916 `94
Ducati 916 Monop.-Senna `95-
Ducati 916 SP `96
Ducati 916 `98
Ducati 996 Bip./Monop. `99
Ducati 996 SPS
Ducati MH 900 evo `01
Ducati Monster 600 `94
Ducati Monster 600 `98
Ducati Monster 600 `98 Dark
Ducati Monster 600 `00
Ducati Monster 750 `00
Ducati Monster 900 `93
Ducati Monster 900 `94
Ducati Monster 900 `98
Ducati Monster 900 i.e. `00
Ducati ST 2 `97
Ducati ST 4 `99

[Bear of Little Brain]

Update: I did not cure the problem by cleaning off the gunge around the various connectors/fuses, so maybe "the gunge" was okay. Maybe I'd better put some new gunge back.

The problem is still intermittent, so it looks like I'll have to dig into it properly. I'll try sussing out 'dogs relay solution. (Before I started waggling connectors around, my first thought had been that it was a relay problem. I did take the cover off the relay that you've replaced to make sure it was working, and it seemed to be just fine, so we'll have to see what I come up with. )

@dirtydog: does your new, "unavailable" relay have an original manufacturer name and part number stamped on it? Something like this must be used by other bike manufacturers, I'd have thought.

[dirtydog]

The original relay has these markings

Bitron
B047
12v 40a
PA66-GF30

The new one

Omron
B047
12v 40a
PA66-GF30

[dirtydog]

This is a cross reference I found for the relay on a Ducati forum

"I had my Ignition relay go out and after order 2 wrong relays i thought i would make it easier for the others.
The OE relay should be something like BITRON(Italy) # PA66-GF30 and this is how you can find it to buy...

The Ducati part # is: 28740141A


Here are the other alternatives......

Radio shack 900-2391

Seimens/Tyco V23073/V23074

Bosch 0 332 207 307

Napa AR 634

Car Quest RY 620

Borg Warner R3223

Orman 68H-UA-0070003

Mopar 56006846"

[dirtydog]

The Ducati part number is 28740141A

[shebee]

Thanks for that DD


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[Bear of Little Brain]

Thanks for that DD

Me too