Matris Fork Kit

Technical stuff specific to the Raptor 1000

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andybaggies
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Re: Matris Fork Kit

Post by andybaggies » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:17 pm

Well, I've bit the bucket & finally bought a set of Matris cartridges:
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Beautifully made & machined and incredibly light. Damper chamber contains a small top out spring & came with a 0.85 main spring. I'm not sure if this is standard or was reduced for my weight (68kg). Notice the green rubber rings on the damper rods just below the spacers, these can be set to & used for the oil level - a nice touch. But also notice the lack of holes for a spring compressor in the main black (aluminium) spacer - I had to drill these myself. Not entirely sure why it doesn't already have them :-?

After bodging up a spring compressor frame it was a no hassle fitting. The frame has a locating spigot at the bottom and the fork leg is strapped to the vertical pole. With the bought compressor tool fitted at the top and the bar fitted through the bottom I used a couple of ratchet straps to compress the spring. I must admit I did feel a little smug that my original design actually worked. :thumbsup:
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andybaggies
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Re: Matris Fork Kit

Post by andybaggies » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:55 pm

So onto road impressions:

Good lord !! braking is vastly improved in both feel & power. I had an inkling there was a little stiction & juddering with the previous dampers and this has proved to be so. Now there is nothing but controlled and stable compression from the front even when braking & riding over cats eyes. I can use much more of the brakes ability. Very impressive & confidence inspiring.

Ooohhh the damping is just lovely jubbly. This was immediately noticeable even when just pulling the old boy out of the garage and it got even better on the road. It's certainly not big trailie smoothly wafting you along as it still allows the road to be felt beneath your hands. But it does it in such a smoothly reactive way that the bike's front doesn't rattle & bob & give up and say whatever, like times past. An example of this is going over one of those three painted lines slow down jobbies where you now don't feel the need to do so :D

This has been my first experience of adjustable suspension and it came as, now obvious, news to me that increasing damping doesn't necessary mean a more uncomfortable ride. It can actually mean a firmer but more controlled & supple ride.

One last example. My exit on the last roundabout on the way home is the first one but for a giggle I usually go right & all the way round. The first crank in point has ridges & bumps with some ripples three quarters of the way round. The surface always had to be treated with a little care and tippy toes but now I just pop him on his side & biff me way round without even thinking about it. The suspension just quietly does it firm, controlled & supple job.

The only down side is that I can't see the damn things when riding as they're hiding behind the V-Rap's horn. But you can certainly feel 'em.

Should have done this years ago.

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V4mp
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Re: Matris Fork Kit

Post by V4mp » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:08 pm

I suggest that you should set the suspension sag. ;)
Don't ride faster than your angels can fly !

andybaggies
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Re: Matris Fork Kit

Post by andybaggies » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:33 pm

I suggest that you should set the suspension sag. ;)
The sag & ride height was checked and it was pretty much on the nail out of the box with their recommended settings.

I was going to run it for a couple of weeks to let things bed in before re-checking and possible adjustment.

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Re: Matris Fork Kit

Post by HiFi » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:18 pm

Sounds completely awesome have always found the rappy to chatter over bumps maybe i should try some :happyhappy:

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Re: Matris Fork Kit

Post by nickst4 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:18 am

With Andy B's helpful advice, I've now put a deposit down on a pair of Matris fork cartridges. More than that, Matris have undertaken to build a shock too. They don't actually list Raptor shocks as standard, but will be making one for me that matches the dimensions of the original. Everything will, they assert, be tailored to my requirements for a plush controlled ride on all road conditions. Ever the optimist, me! :nod:

Nick, UK

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Re: Matris Fork Kit

Post by V4mp » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:56 pm

Sounds nice. :thumbsup:
Don't ride faster than your angels can fly !

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Re: Matris Fork Kit

Post by nickst4 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:25 am

To my surprise, the whole Matris package (fork cartridges and shock) arrived little more than a week after ordering, and I can echo Andy's view that it looks superbly made. I'm also starting to understand all the stuff about making jigs to fit the fork cartridge springs!

Nothing has gone near the bike yet, but I'm a little disappointed that the shock spring is exactly the same gauge as the OEM one when I was hoping for something visibly more supple to match my light weight. It may be that the gas pressure that Matris have specified (12bar) has a bearing on the final spring rate and I daresay they would supply a lighter spring if I asked. Since the shock has about 10mm length adjustment available, I might see if the old suspension links will fit rather than my homemade jack-up units, but it depends on the clearance needed for the valving arrangements. Who knows whether the precise relationship of the link pivot holes has a major effect on suspension movement? It's all geometry to me... :?

Looking forward to getting the refined Silver Machine on the road!

Nick

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Re: Matris Fork Kit

Post by andybaggies » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:35 pm

Sounds good, and remember to make sure all the fork catridge adjustments are set to zero before assembly. Damage can be caused otherwise.
but I'm a little disappointed that the shock spring is exactly the same gauge as the OEM one when I was hoping for something visibly more supple to match my light weight
Spring rate isn't just a function of wire thickness, the wire material/tempering & number of coils also enter the equation. See https://www.engineersedge.com/spring_comp_calc_k.htm for the full anorak experience.

I may be wrong but isn't the (nitrogen?) gas used to stop the damping fluid from foaming when under hard use. Anyway if I were you I'd always start from base settings and use the OEM triangles, as, unless you know exactly what you're doing, any change to the geometry has totally unknown changes to the speed & length of the shock piston movement.

nickst4
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Re: Matris Fork Kit

Post by nickst4 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:09 am

Thanks Andy; helpful comments as ever. I agree that spring rate is relative to more than just cross-section, but I'd say that is the major factor given that the metal and temper are similar, as they are likely to be for our application. I shall certainly look to putting back the OEM linkages and adding up to 10mm on the shock length to get near the approx 20mm raise I currently have at the tyre. Low bikes are very confidence-inspiring but the Raptor is just that bit too low IMO.

Apart from Matris not drilling the holes in the spring spacer that they show on the instructions and which would facilitate fitting the spring to the cartridge, they also don't mark the cartridges with compression and rebound (separate on the legs) beyond the tiny logo on the top mount. Remove both of those top mounts as is necessary for assembly, and you have no foolproof way of knowing which leg is which! :doh: Of course there is a difference in that the oil access holes are at the top of one and the bottom on the other, but you need to know which way the oil is going. :?

The saga continues...

Nick

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Re: Matris Fork Kit

Post by andybaggies » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:17 pm

Remove both of those top mounts as is necessary for assembly, and you have no foolproof way of knowing which leg is which! :doh:
Yes, I nearly got caught out here and removed both fork caps but when assembling you just do one fork leg/cartridge at a time anyway. It doesn't matter which leg they go into and the fork caps are identical apart from the c & r lettering - although mighty confusing if installed the wrong way round :blink:

BTW this link http://www.triumphrat.net/air-cooled-tw ... all-5.html (last few posts) states the compression rod has holes at the top & rebound has the holes at the bottom. Which does strike me as counter intuitive... but hey ho what do I know or can remember! No doubt a quick call to BTR would confirm.

Happy mechanicing :)

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Re: Matris Fork Kit

Post by nickst4 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:04 am

OK, word back from Matris is as Andy reported: holes in bottom of cartridge is Rebound side, in top is Compression, with Rebound generally fitted to the right leg, not that it matters. They say they will now mark the cartridge bodies as such. Progress! No response to my query about the drilling of holes in the spacer to make assembly easier with a pukka spring compressor, again as Andy mentioned.

Matris are currently at the Milan show, so they probably have other stuff to think about...

Nick

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