Matris Fork Kit

[andybaggies]

I see Matris are now producing a full cartridge replacement kit for the Raptor 1000 at suitable Matris price of £650 http://www.biketorqueracing.co.uk/chass ... aptor-0105

From what info I can glean from 't web Matris are well regarded and are of high quality mind.

[V4mp]

Definitely a upgrade compared to stock ones.

[Lexio62]

I like the idea of this, but it's an expensive upgrade. The GSXR conversion will end up costing similar money - maybe less...

[andybaggies]

I like the idea of this, but it's an expensive upgrade. The GSXR conversion will end up costing similar money - maybe less...

My thoughts exactly. I've also been looking into a conversion for ages and been close to taking the plunge a couple of times but after totting up all the other bits I'd need discs, calipers, lines, mudguard (plus respray) etc I haven't bothered. And that's not to mention the time involved.

The big advantage for me, as the bike is my daily, is the Matris should be a pretty easy weekend replacement job. I'm going to see how my new Wilbers shock changes things but I'm sorely tempted.

The price is about middle of the road as Andreani go for ~400 and K-Tech, Traxxion Maxton etc go for ~1000. But the latter do strike as a race solution rather than road.

Andy B

[pod]

Maxton did my forks for about £400 years ago, re sprung and new guts, huge improvement.
Not a weekend job though , took ages, check for turnaround time.

[nickst4]

In a theoretical way, I'm interested in this discussion, but don't at the moment see any urgency for doing anything at the front end of my Raptor. Already it is far more compliant and comfortable than my Monster ever was, and that was after importing a set of better forks from the US and having Gold Valves fitted professionally to the M750. There's a series of small ripples on my road just yards from home that always rattled my teeth. Hundreds of £s later, that bike had to go and the Raptor is a better bike all around. Someone please explain what's wrong with the standard Raptor forks?

I have gone ahead and fitted a Tuono shock and am inclined to agree that having more (and controllable) damping is a good thing. While I was in there, I thought I'd go for a pair of Lust Racing's jack-up links to lift the back end by 20mm. Not so simple: the way they have made them means there is insufficient clearance for the chunky bottom end of the adjustable shock. They are aware of this, but unfortunately the warning was not included on the particular 'buy it now' panel I happened to use, though it's plain elsewhere. Doh! With luck, they'll refund my money, while I make my own modest jack-up links to suit.

Nick

[V4mp]

I like the idea of this, but it's an expensive upgrade. The GSXR conversion will end up costing similar money - maybe less...

You are saying GSXR conversion is better than Matris kit?
I think it isn't so straightforward... With GSXR conversion you get adjustable forks and different calipers, right?
Forks are maybe better than Raptor stock ones, but those are also stock unit. Usually aftermarket cartridge replacement kits are way better than stock units. Reason for that is simple, price.
Depending on model year calipers might also be better than Raptor stock ones, but you need matching master cylinder to get everything out of them... I don't try to say GSXR conversion is worse solution than matris fork kit. Matris kit focuses just to make suspension better, GSXR conversion is more overall package.

Someone please explain what's wrong with the standard Raptor forks?

Just my opinion, but in my mind Raptor standarad forks are too soft and non-adjustable.
Adjustable forks aren't necessary better than non-adjustables, but I like to setup suspension to suit my riding style and that is impossible with non-adjustable forks.

[andybaggies]

Someone please explain what's wrong with the standard Raptor forks?

The following are issues as I have experienced them but they do reflect others experiences as mentioned on this forum. As always with suspension it is very specific to the individual riders weight so bear in mind I'm quite light at 70 kg.

Initially the unladen sag was too large which allowed the forks to (laden) sag close to the air gap which made them harsh over bumps and ripples. It also felt overdamped (in compression). With me in some places it was harsh enough to rattle the keys in the ignition. Adding preload tubes, ~13 mm, using 5wt oil & (strangely) increasing the air gap made a noticeable difference but the high speed compression damping was still too firm transfering jolts to the chassis/bars.

I then took ~ a 1/3 of the oil out and replaced it with 2.5wt. This eased the forks nicely and allowed the full travel to be used over urban pot holes but didn't really make much difference to the high speed compression. But it did make a difference to rebound which is now starting to get a touch 'bouncy' on certain corners.

So I've now hit an impasse - I need to adjust the compression and rebound separately. BTW the Matris kit is rebound on one leg & compression on the other.

I will say that in day to day use the forks are pretty good but day to day use also lets me concentrate too much on their faults One that really does bug is thumping over cats eyes when 10/15 mph filtering on a main A road. A manoeuvre in which you don't really want to be knocked off line.

Another is on a fast bumpy stretch where, although it doesn't threaten to get out of control and just barrels through, it does highlight the lack of quality compression & rebound damping. It just feels a little overwhelmed by it all.

Andy B

[pod]

Stock Raptor forks are under sprung and overdamped, they are fine until you hit a washboard road surface, then the overdamping fails to let the forks respond properly, it wasnt till I took my old Norton out over the same roads as my raptor that i realised this. The Norton being dead smooth and the Raptor bouncing around convinced me. The Norton forks have modified "roadholders " and though quaint by modern standards they were way better than the stock raptor forks.
The maxton conversion gives adjustable compression damping, i set it to their recommendations and was very pleased with the results, I tried one division more and it started skipping on cats eyes, put it straight back to the original setting and have left it there ever since.

[nickst4]

Thanks for the explanations, guys! Kitted-up for the road, I'm probably 65kg, and I'm sure this has an influence on how my various bikes behave. Obviously, they go faster (!), but not necessarily smoother because the ratio between sprung and unsprung weight may not promote suspension movement. Anyway, some days I notice the bumps and others not...

Just as a technical note: how come the trendy concept of having the two damping duties on separate legs doesn't cause distortion that would increase internal friction? OK; forks are pretty massive and rigid now (much less flexy than Norton Roadholders, I'd guess) and perhaps the benefit outweighs the theoretical disadvantage?

Nick

[Lexio62]

Raptor forks are budget units. Same with the rear shock.

I will race mine, but for road use the matris kit will do. I'd also suggest upgrading the rear shock of you do work on the front.

[andybaggies]

Just as a technical note: how come the trendy concept of having the two damping duties on separate legs doesn't cause distortion that would increase internal friction? OK; forks are pretty massive and rigid now (much less flexy than Norton Roadholders, I'd guess) and perhaps the benefit outweighs the theoretical disadvantage?

Thats what I thought but evidently the axle & triples tie the legs together sufficiently strong enough for them to act as a single unit. And I quote from Race Techs manual "If the notion of imbalance created with compression in one leg & rebound in the other seems to pose a problem, you can stop worrying - unless the front axle flexes appreciably, both fork legs are going up & down at the same time."

Even Ohlins use them (https://www.ohlins.com/product/fka-100-series/

[pod]

As a side note my 71 BSA is getting fork mods that split damping duties between legs, Hi and low speed damping, comp in RHS , rebound in LHS, there wasnt enough to room to get both in each.
Will find out how this goes soon.

As for the Maxton works, although a bit spendy, everything else remains stock so no messing around making donor forks fit. I imagine the Matris has similar benefits.

others here have messed around with different weight fork oils to some effect, adding more oil than stock will decrease the air volume, effectively raising the spring rate, at 65 KG , you may find the fork springs are about OK, have you taken any sag readings to check, looking for 25% to 33% of total stroke in the intial sag from unweighted to bike plus rider on board? You may get away with using a lighter weight fork oil to reduce the damping , as a cheap fix.

For handling improvements the alternative rear triangles that raise the seat a bit are best value bangs per buck, they pin down the front without going all shopping trolley, no more headshakes when cresting bumps, A Very Good Thing.

[nickst4]

Thanks, Pod, for those rider-specific comments. I must check out the sag at the front.

Having made my own tool-steel rear links to raise the back by maybe 15mm, (actually, a pattern cut from the spec in the files here fitted in exactly the same position, but I opted for a little more clearance for the shock base) I decided that the geometry of them and the Tuono shock meant I had more sag at the back than I needed, so added more preload on the spring. By the way, the tuono spring is exactly the same gauge as the raptor oem, but is at least one coil shorter, so I wondered what effect that'd have. So far, it all seems to work well, and the ride-height raise has at least meant that the bike leans at a more suitable angle (ie further) on the side-stand than it did before and it looks even more dynamic.

The more I ride the Raptor, the more I'm impressed with it, and I'm glad I opted for the full-fat 1000 version! That is one excellent engine; tractable but very strong, and I've got nowhere near the rev limit yet.

Nick

[andybaggies]

I'm going to see how my new Wilbers shock changes things but I'm sorely tempted.

Raptor forks are budget units. Same with the rear shock.
I will race mine, but for road use the matris kit will do. I'd also suggest upgrading the rear shock of you do work on the front.

Well after a good month using the Wilber rear shock I can give some thoughts:

Ride height has increased - not by an amount to change the tip in feel but noticeable when stationary & paddling about and also when leaning farther over on the stand.
High speed motorway cornering feels so much more stable and although it hasn't being transformed into a Aprilia RSV all round handling is just so fuss free. Nothing seems to upset it and now I don't really notice the rear working.
Traction & engine response was vastly improved & immediately noticeable which came as a surprise. It honestly felt like the engine had a top quality tune up.
And finally because there is so little trouble coming from the rear it gives the forks space to show how really bad they are. Their damping and action is just plain awful.