TPS reset

[Crap Tartan]

Hi All,

checked this tonight as am playing with PC2 and trying to get rid of the 3K glitch.

Anyway at tickover its sitting correctly in the middle of the display 1100/1200 revs but doesnt lift until I bring the revs up to 2000 revs.

On here it mentiond 1400 revs as to when it should lift and on the TL/SV forums it mentions 1450 revs.

Whilst 2000 isnt miles away is it worth adjusting the TPS to try to get it spot on? Just wondering if its worth it to get the start point dead on before i go any further with the PC2.

I remember last time I did this and it was a right fiddly pain!

[Crap Tartan]

well seeing as no-one else wants to I`ll reply to myself....................................

decided to adjust TPS and its now set to 1400-1500 revs so plan to take the bike to work tomorrow to see if anything has improved. Its a fidgety fine tweek but hopefully will be worth it.

Just hope it aint too fekkin wet!!!!!

[snapdragon]

no point me replying - it's all Geek to me

[Crap Tartan]

no worries Snap, its safer just to leave me talking to masel`

[Red Mist]

"Just hope it aint too fekkin wet!!!!!"

Can't imagine it getting much fekkin' wetter!

[VRaptorMark]

And??

[Crap Tartan]

Journey to work this morning was in chilly damp conditions but at least it wasnt bucketing down! Bike was smoother at low revs (less than 3k) but the glitch at 3k could still be felt at times. Even when it had warmed up after 20 miles or so it was sill only reaching 78-81 deg. It almost seemed worse than before although that may have been because I was trying to find it all the time!
I decided to tape up 4 inches of the radiator before coming home just now and even tho` it was dry and probably 5-10 deg warmer than this morning the bike only got up to 80-82 deg. on average and was running the same. Just before i got in for the last 2/3 miles I was filtering and the temp rose to 83-85 and the 3k glitch couldnt be found!

I was deliberately looking for it and until i got above 83 ish deg then I could always find it but not above it. I will tape up the radiator some more tonight and try again tomorrow to/from work.

I havnt even got round to playing with the PC2 yet but thought it best to get a solid base to work from first.

[Crap Tartan]

Thought I should give an update on my progress although havnt done a lot to to work and other commitments stealing all my time!

Anyway, I taped the rad up further (about 2/3 ish) and that never made much of a differance with the overall temp. During testing of this in sometimes cool conditions I noticed the 3k glitch does reduce slightly from around 75degC upwards, steadily improving until its gone by the mid 80`s.

I then started playing with the PC2 i borrowed but that proved difficult as the USB lead I got didnt want to allow my laptop to see the PC2 and I dont have anything with a serial input anymore! So seeing as I couldnt see the maps on my laptop or load anything else onto the PC2 i decided to try playing with the 3 mixture buttons on the PC2 itself. Nothing I tried improved the situation even when I got extreme with the settings so eventually gave up on the PC2 as i couldnt get any accurate figures due to my IT issues!

I decided to go back to the temperature issue and more importantly the ECT sensor (engine coolant temp). I ran some tests to confirm the resistance readings where as per the figures in the book at a variety of engine temps. This proved accurate so did some calculating of resistor required to put in circuit in parallel with the ECT sensor to offset the resistance the ECM sees.
By doing this when the engine is at a lower temp, the ECM will think its much hotter thus producing the mapping that gets rid of the 3k glitch.
Lots of calculations later, due to wanting to maintain the range of running tempS without having the ECM think its too hot and switch the fan on or flash the warning lights and eventually shut down, I came up with these figures;

Actual eng temp Overall resistance of ECT(modded) Temp seen by ECM
20 deg C 416 ohm 70 deg C
50 309 80
80 194 95
110 110 115

Remember these are not linear as the response curve of the ECT sensor is exponential. The temp seen on your clock would be the same as seen by the ECM

I reckon I can leave the Rad uncovered as that is better for the engine especially when sitting in traffic or stopped.

The magic resistor size is 500 ohm and 1/4 watt would suffice but may use a 1/2 watt just in case. A variable resistor could be used (potentiometer) to fine tune this a bit better and I may do that once I have proved it works initially. I reckon that the glitch should be totally gone using this by the time the engine actual temp is around 60 deg C, so a lot sooner in the warm up and this takes away it dropping in and out as you hover in the 80`s depending on use.

Finally, any other techy gits out there see any reasons this may not work or other issue it may effect that i may not have considered????

I should be able to get some suitable resistors at work tomorrow so will test fully at earliest opportunity and keep you all posted.

Phew!!!!

[shedmonkey]

Might be better to fit a higher temp thermostat to keep engine temp up (looking back an early carb model sv650 stat should fit according to old posts)
Just not sure what other differences the artificial temp increase may cause. I also tried using usb to serial adaptors for various things without much success .sorry youve not had much luck with pc2.

[Crap Tartan]

Hi Glynn,

dont see how a higher temp thermostat will make a differance to this problem?

The thermostat on the rad controls the fan kicking in at 105 degC and the thermistor in the thermostat housing is the one thats used to drive the ECM (ECT sensor input). Am I missing something fundamental here ?

Anyway did some further testing with a 470 ohm resistor in parallel tonight in the garage and when the bike is cold the readout is 71 degC ish so doesnt take long to reach mid 80`s and lose the 3k glitch. Its fine above then and when the actual temp is 81 degC the readout says 99 degC. Obviously if the bike gets even hotter in use then eventually the 105 (readout) limit will be hit and kick in the fan at about 95 degC actual temp.
I plan to build a small waterproof enclosure that will house a variable resistor allowing me to fine tune the offset and a switch so I can take the resistor in/out of circuit at will. This will allow better cold starting with the resistor out of circuit then as it warms make the switch so the resistor is in circuit and smoother throttle response. (no 3k glitch). Then I can use the bike as normal and switch the resistance back out should I approach 105 degC or hotter so as not to put fan on or if even hotter then set off the FI error! As the bike would be at 95 degC ish in reality the glitch still wouldnt appear as I`m above mid 80`s anyway.
It also allows instant check by switching in/ out to check modded and actual temps of engine.This shouldnt affect the rsponse providing you are above the 3k glitch at the time.

Obviously I need to road test this fully to make sure it doesnt affect the mapping anywhere else in the rev range but I dont see why it should??

Anyone any thoughts???

[Crap Tartan]

Oh, and need to get your PC2 back to you...............................




Yours too Wierdo!!!!

[shedmonkey]

No i mean water valve type thermostat should be inside a housing above the engine keeps the hot water in the engine til engine is correct temp then should be sorted. Not looked at it but some very old posts suggest trying this.

[Crap Tartan]

Yup, the engine thermostat opens at 74.5 - 78.5 degC (standard one) which by changing to a higher temp value one would make it quicker to get up to mid 80`s temp but then as soon as it opens it may hover around the glitch on/off point and be a pain in the arse as the 80`s seems to be the normal run temp area of the engine with the cooling the rad provides!

It may have the same effect as my idea if you can keep the engine above mid 80`s but it has to get there and stay there!

my mod allows you to push it to run without the glitch from around 50 degC (actual) thus giving you earlier smooth running during the warm-up period and even if it gets up to temp but drops below the magic mid 80`s slightly then you still keep smooth response.

I reckon the bike was overcooled in design and they never considered colder country use/ non-race or fast use and even when they realised these issues just couldnt give a toss about sorting them!!

Also getting another thermostat that fits and opens at a high enough temp may be more difficult than you think........................

[dizzyblonde]

Carnivore fitted an SV thermostat with no ill effect to his raptor. Can't be that hard to fit.

[Crap Tartan]

I know what you mean Dizz, lots of thermostats are fairly standard fit and it should be possible to find one thats opens at a higher temp but even that wont guarentee to fix the 3k glitch.

Even when i have been running my rap for long periods and the thermostat is fully open the cooling effect of the rad and system means the bike will generally run in the 80`s temp. Some peoples its in the higher 80`s and as in mine some in the low 80`s. So even if the thermostat opens at a higher temp (eg 90) then it will be fine and no 3k glitch but then as the system will cool the bike down to its natural temp and thus possibly reintroduce the 3k glitch.

My method of frig makes this unable to happen as i am basically putting an offset into the ECM to make it think I am running hotter than actual so it is always above the 3k glitch unless the engine is actually below 40-50 degC. As I am also going to make it easily switchable , even when riding, then it maintains the starting map, can be switched out if you are stuck in traffic and heating up or just so you can flick between on/off to compare actual/frigged temps!