Throttle response

Technical stuff specific to the Raptor 1000
nickst4
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Throttle response

Post by nickst4 »

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, but a feature which I (and my lady, who provisionally adores the bike!) find awkward is the abrupt response when feeding-in power at low speed. In the past, I've tamed several bikes by a bit of geometry-modification to the twistgrip or the cable quadrant on the injectors, but that doesn't look easy on the Raptor.

This morning, I've read a blog item from an Antipodean who says the throttle position sensor can be tweaked to reduce the initial response. I'd have thought this would mess with fueling in general. Anybody gone that route?

Thanks,

Nick, Norfolk, UK
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Re: Throttle response

Post by Crap Tartan »

It sounds like you have the 3k glitch!
Its a common problem on the 100 raps.
Check your TPS and make sure its set accurately, theres lots of info on here on how to do it.

If that doesnt solve the issue or its still a bit lumpy at low revs then my black box mod will certainly fix it.
I have made them for many people on here and they never fail to work.

Search on here for info and its easy to do and has no adverse effect on fuelling or running of the bike.
If you can do a bit of soldering then its easy to make it yourself and fit it.
There are full instructions on a thread in here by me on how to do it.

Best of luck!
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Re: Throttle response

Post by snapdragon »

Could write a book on this, but after years of ownership and a fair few miles I'll avoid that and endorse the black box as a quicker fix. I don't have one because I've just got into the habit and ways of the bike.
The 3k glitch seems to happen on mine just above thirty in third, (a handy no-look way of staying on the limit) lumpy at lower speeds I've found only when the temp is too low (below sixty) so I ensure she's warm enough.
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Re: Throttle response

Post by dizzyblonde »

My Raptor is a bit like me. Cranky when I've not had two cups of coffee in a morning. Raptors Cranky at low speed when under decent running temperature. Once it's warmed up enough she's right as rain! I'm used to it and it's quirky behaviour so much I ignore it mostly
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Re: Throttle response

Post by nickst4 »

Thanks for the replies so far. Personally, I don't see the problem as being associated with a particular rev-level; rather more the matter of feeding-in miniscule amounts of that lovely torque while riding slowly around gravelly tight corners and suchlike. Dianne is used to a very soft power delivery and massive tractability in the Cagiva Alazzurra (anybody here familiar with these nice bikes?), but I've had long practice with managing the power of my Ducati ST4, albeit breaking a leg under it in a zero-speed tip-over before I modified the twist-grip!

Anyway, I'll look into the famous Black Box. Thanks for the prompt.

Nick
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Re: Throttle response

Post by Crap Tartan »

In the low gear map the curve is very lumpy around 2.5 to 3000 revs, this is where the glitch comes from.
A PC will solve the problem but its much more expensive.
The map changes to a much smoother curve when in higher gears and temp is up above around 84deg.

The black box fools the ECM into believing its warmer than it actually is thus you get the smooth map much sooner.
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Re: Throttle response

Post by nickst4 »

OK, provisionally: job done, without resorting to electronics. I didn't want to go the black box route anyway because I don't recognise any problems with my motor's performance hot or cold, beyond the initial abrupt throttle response.

Two changes have softened that initial cracking of the throttle. The first is to fit my favourite 'bar grips; the 714 ProGrip Enduros. These are slightly barrel-shaped and fit my (small) hands so much better than the skinny straight OEM grips, with the result that one has better control without the death-like grip that induces cramp. I wish I had shares in ProGrip cos I've bought so many of these 714s!

The second mod is one I've done before several times, and that is to reduce the radius of the twistgrip cable drum for the first few millimetres to get more twist per bhp. It turns out that the push-pull Raptor cable drum works perfectly with this change made just on the throttle-opening side. Channeling the nylon bed down to the base and angling the cable nipple is all it takes, preferably inserting a small screw to keep the cable down into the groove.

Have a look at the pics if you are interested in doing this mod. This is especially helpful for riders not familiar with powerful bikes, but I like to have good control especially at low speeds whatever I ride.

Nick
Attachments
P1030688 Raptor twistgrip drum small.jpg
P1030688 Raptor twistgrip drum small.jpg (185.8 KiB) Viewed 10538 times
P1030692 Raptor twistgrip mod smaller.jpg
P1030692 Raptor twistgrip mod smaller.jpg (189.03 KiB) Viewed 10538 times
P1030693 Raptor ProGrip714 small.jpg
P1030693 Raptor ProGrip714 small.jpg (179.46 KiB) Viewed 10538 times
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Re: Throttle response

Post by geoff »

That looks a clever solution to your issue. :)
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Re: Throttle response

Post by nickst4 »

geoff wrote:55 years agoThat looks a clever solution to your issue. :)
Yes, the mod received approval from my lady yesterday, who also found the Raptor significantly easier to ride. Of course, beyond the first few degrees of twistgrip action, the bike shoots forward as per prev.

So far, none of the bikes I've done this on have shown any wear on the cable or loosening of the nipple and I really wouldn't expect it. On the Gran Canyon, the cable quadrant at the engine end can be remounted off-centre on the spindle to get a progressive action and that works well too, but things are more complex on the Raptor with its twin cable setup.

Nick
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Re: Throttle response

Post by geoff »

Thanks Nick, nice of you to share that one, my vstrom could do with a more progressive throttle, might have to sort that out. :)
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Re: Throttle response

Post by nickst4 »

geoff wrote:55 years agoThanks Nick, nice of you to share that one, my vstrom could do with a more progressive throttle, might have to sort that out. :)
You are most welcome, Geoff!

DIY has always worked for me, but be aware that there could be a commercial option available marketed as the G2 Throttle-tamer. I know they do a replacement tube and alternative cable-quadrants for single-cable units, but maybe not for twin cables? As to the general applicability of the concept, it depends on the ratio of the twistgrip- and carb/injection-drums. Some twistgrip drums are on a minimum radius already. It happens that the Raptor drum has a second layer above the minimum, and it's that I've cut into.

I do like simple intuitive engineering solutions! :D

Nick
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Re: Throttle response

Post by Crap Tartan »

By reducing the diameter wont this run up to the stop on the throttle before the throttle is fully open?
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Re: Throttle response

Post by nickst4 »

Crap Tartan wrote:55 years agoBy reducing the diameter wont this run up to the stop on the throttle before the throttle is fully open?
No, not at all. It typically adds maybe 5-10 degrees on total rotation because it's only the first section of the twistgrip drum that is geared lower. After that, it picks up on the original gearing. The commercial versions may increase the rate beyond OEM above that point to give the exact same total rotation. Whatever, full-throttle is still going to be a modest twist away because modern bikes have much quicker-action throttles than in the past, plus oodles more power.

On the Cagiva Gran Canyon (hopefully, you-all know what a brilliant bike that is?), it's an easy mod to move the pivot point on the cable drum attached to the injection bodies. Difficult to get one's head around, but it does the complementary job that re-gearing the twistgrip drum does and is more easily reversible.

Sorry if this detail bores, but I'm very enthusiastic about smooth throttle transitions, especially at low speed!

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Re: Throttle response

Post by Renegade Hippy »

Hi Nick

I have performed this throttle mod on my 1000 and it works as expected. Thanks!

I also purchased a pair of the Progrip 714 from M&P but I think I chose the wrong ones as they are intended for motocross and have closed ends and two flanges on the innermost end instead of one.

Did you have to modify the 714s at all or is there a model of 714 for road bike bars?

Nick
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Re: Throttle response

Post by HiFi »

Bit late to the party, but I'd like to mention the clutch switch. Have had some success fixing a 3000rpm glitch by replacing the clutch switch with a new one...
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