fuel pump problems..

Technical stuff specific to the Raptor 1000
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fuel pump problems..

Post by rich-racing.co.uk »

following on from an earlier post about TL1000 fuel pumps..

I managed to get a tank with a fuel pump off ebay (my tank need s a respray).

Fitted the new tank today, and still have the same problem - when you turn the ignition on, the relay clicks in, but the pump doesn't prime up. fuse is ok, swapped the two relays over, still nothing. noticed the relays were getting warm when I changed them over though?

checked for an error code on the speedo and it's coming up -c00 ?

Any thoughts?

Thanks.
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Re: fuel pump problems..

Post by Crap Tartan »

That code is saying there are no faults indicated.
Other things that can affect this start up operation are;
side stand switch
tip over sensor
fuel pump relay
ECM
If you are hearing the fuel pump relay operate (click) then the pump should run for the 3 seconds until started.
If not check the connections for the above items and the earth for the fuel pump.
The earth would be my first check..................

HTH
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Re: fuel pump problems..

Post by rich-racing.co.uk »

Crap Tartan wrote: 5 years ago That code is saying there are no faults indicated.
Other things that can affect this start up operation are;
side stand switch
tip over sensor
fuel pump relay
ECM
If you are hearing the fuel pump relay operate (click) then the pump should run for the 3 seconds until started.
If not check the connections for the above items and the earth for the fuel pump.
The earth would be my first check..................

HTH
Many thanks.
Swapped the two relays over, so shouldn't be that.

Earth sounds a good possibility.There are 4 wires going to the pump from below the tank, any idea on which is the earth?

Also, there are the 2 connectors on the top of the pump itself - if you connect the terminals to a battery should it try to prime up?

Starter motor turns over, so does that eliminate anything?

Thanks again.
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Re: fuel pump problems..

Post by Crap Tartan »

First might be better if I explain how it works;
When ignition switch is on this provides 12v to the side stand relay which providing the side stand switch is working will allow the relay to operate and give 12v out to the engine stop switch. if this is in run position it allows the fuel pump relay to operate and send 12v to the fuel pump and the ECM. it also allows 12v to the injectors too but thats irrelevant at this stage.
Providing the fuel pump has a good earth it should spin up for 3s controlled by a timing fuction of the ECM.
So if you here the fuel pump relay operate (make sure its not the side stand relay you hear) then the problem must be after the relay and it can be wiring between relay and pump or ECM or any related connectors.
If you are hearing something other than the fuel pump relay then it could be wiring before the fuel pump or the 10A fuse for it.
It is unlikely to be the pump if you have replaced it already but it could be connectors or wiring.
Check earth to pump, | cannot tell you wire colour as I cant find my large wiring diagrem at the moment.
There should be 4 wires to the fuel pump.
I see you swapped the relays over but was the same, have you tried swapping over the actual pumps?
Ignore anything from starting onwards as its kinda irrelevant at this stage.
Earth wire is most likely same colour as all the earths but not definately!!
Theses italian/japanese mergers are often full or reverse physcology.
Check battery 30A fuse is good, check 10A fuel pump relay fuse is good then switch ignition on. Hold the fuel pump relay as you do it so you will feel as well as hear it operate.
If all that happens then its either fuel pump/associated wiring/connectors or the ECM not working properly.
Test one thing at a time and make notes at each stage.
Once done get back to me and we can see whats what.
PM me if you prefer and I will send you my mobile number so i can listen whilst you walk/talk your way through this issue.
Are you reasonable competent using a multimeter and doing wiring testing?

Cheers
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Re: fuel pump problems..

Post by rich-racing.co.uk »

Crap Tartan wrote: 5 years ago First might be better if I explain how it works;
When ignition switch is on this provides 12v to the side stand relay which providing the side stand switch is working will allow the relay to operate and give 12v out to the engine stop switch. if this is in run position it allows the fuel pump relay to operate and send 12v to the fuel pump and the ECM. it also allows 12v to the injectors too but thats irrelevant at this stage.
Providing the fuel pump has a good earth it should spin up for 3s controlled by a timing fuction of the ECM.
So if you here the fuel pump relay operate (make sure its not the side stand relay you hear) then the problem must be after the relay and it can be wiring between relay and pump or ECM or any related connectors.
If you are hearing something other than the fuel pump relay then it could be wiring before the fuel pump or the 10A fuse for it.
It is unlikely to be the pump if you have replaced it already but it could be connectors or wiring.
Check earth to pump, | cannot tell you wire colour as I cant find my large wiring diagrem at the moment.
There should be 4 wires to the fuel pump.
I see you swapped the relays over but was the same, have you tried swapping over the actual pumps?
Ignore anything from starting onwards as its kinda irrelevant at this stage.
Earth wire is most likely same colour as all the earths but not definately!!
Theses italian/japanese mergers are often full or reverse physcology.
Check battery 30A fuse is good, check 10A fuel pump relay fuse is good then switch ignition on. Hold the fuel pump relay as you do it so you will feel as well as hear it operate.
If all that happens then its either fuel pump/associated wiring/connectors or the ECM not working properly.
Test one thing at a time and make notes at each stage.
Once done get back to me and we can see whats what.
PM me if you prefer and I will send you my mobile number so i can listen whilst you walk/talk your way through this issue.
Are you reasonable competent using a multimeter and doing wiring testing?

Cheers
Thanks for the reply - very helpful.

Had a look at the bike this week, and...
tried the original pump and the replacement and neither tried to prime up.

there are the four wires going to the pump via the square multi plug.

Looking at the original pump (out of the tank) the four wires look to be three lives and one earth?
The one wire is red and yellow, and goes to the + terminal on top of the pump itself. the other two lives go to what I presume are the fuel light sensors?
There is no voltage from the red/yellow wire though.

Bike has a Datatool alarm/immobiliser fitted so not sure if it could be the problem?
Not sure where the tilt switch is to look at it?
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Re: fuel pump problems..

Post by Crap Tartan »

Tilt switch is just behind the headstock as far as I remember.

THe datatool alarm and immobiliser could be affecting this depending on how it is wired in to the bike and what it disconnects when enabled.

I would remove it completely and see what affect it has.

I do not have my large diagram with colour codes on to help with the plug and wires in it so try to find that info online if possible.
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Re: fuel pump problems..

Post by rich-racing.co.uk »

Crap Tartan wrote: 5 years ago Tilt switch is just behind the headstock as far as I remember.

THe datatool alarm and immobiliser could be affecting this depending on how it is wired in to the bike and what it disconnects when enabled.

I would remove it completely and see what affect it has.

I do not have my large diagram with colour codes on to help with the plug and wires in it so try to find that info online if possible.
I'll look for the tilt sensor tomorrow - looked on ebay for a picture of what I'm looking for :D

Guess I can test the switch with a multimeter?
Or bridge the wires and bypass it to test?

Hope I don't have to strip the alarm out :?

Thanks again for the help
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Re: fuel pump problems..

Post by rich-racing.co.uk »

So - tilt switch seems to be working OK. Situated as advised behind the headstock.
Took it off and tested it with a multimeter - opened it up for a clean. Seems to be fine :(

Might be time to look at the Datatool alarm.
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Re: fuel pump problems..

Post by Crap Tartan »

I would reckon you have got to to be honest Rich.
If you have a diagram of how it fits/ where it connects into then you can see if it could affect your issue.
Otherwise the only real way to be sure its doing what its supposed to as per standard is to remove the alarm/immobiliser and ensure everything else is standard.

Best of luck!
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Re: fuel pump problems..

Post by rich-racing.co.uk »

Crap Tartan wrote: 5 years ago I would reckon you have got to to be honest Rich.
If you have a diagram of how it fits/ where it connects into then you can see if it could affect your issue.
Otherwise the only real way to be sure its doing what its supposed to as per standard is to remove the alarm/immobiliser and ensure everything else is standard.

Best of luck!
I'll dig out the box for the alarm - been on a long time but I'll see if there's any paperwork.
Was fitted by the previous owner, but was a professional job so should hopefully say which circuits it affects.
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Re: fuel pump problems..

Post by rich-racing.co.uk »

Well, the old girl is still sleeping :( .

I've spoken to Datatool and they told me how to bridge the connections in the alarm to eliminate this as a problem, shouldn't be that.

the relays don't click.. but if you switch on the ignition one gets warm? think it's the sidestand one from memory. Maybe this isn't feeding 12v to the ignition switch? Could I open the switch up and test it for power there? There is 12v to the other 2 lives on the pump, just not the one that feeds the + on the pump itself.

Could I test the pumps by powering up direct to a battery? Just to see if it starts priming?

TIA
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Re: fuel pump problems..

Post by Crap Tartan »

I wrote previously about how this system is supposed to work and the sequence it goes through.

"When ignition switch is on this provides 12v to the side stand relay which providing the side stand switch is working will allow the relay to operate and give 12v out to the engine stop switch. if this is in run position it allows the fuel pump relay to operate and send 12v to the fuel pump and the ECM. it also allows 12v to the injectors too but thats irrelevant at this stage.
Providing the fuel pump has a good earth it should spin up for 3s controlled by a timing fuction of the ECM.
So if you here the fuel pump relay operate (make sure its not the side stand relay you hear) then the problem must be after the relay and it can be wiring between relay and pump or ECM or any related connectors.
If you are hearing something other than the fuel pump relay then it could be wiring before the fuel pump or the 10A fuse for it."

Can you test your way through that to see where you lose the 12v as that will give a good indication as to what the problem area is?
It sounds like the side stand relay isnt working but need clearer explanation of what you have found and tested.
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Re: fuel pump problems..

Post by rich-racing.co.uk »

Thanks for the reply - had another listen and the sidestand relay does click (very quietly).

I'll check there's power up to the kill switch tomorrow.
There's a 4 pin plug on the loom going into the relay - should there be 3 positives and an earth?
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Re: fuel pump problems..

Post by Crap Tartan »

a 4 pin relay normally has 12v live on it all the time waiting to be switched through to its source (fuel pump) for instance. This depends on what goes before the relay.
The other two connectors are 12v to operate the relay and earth to allow that operation.
so you need to find the source 12v (battery) and follow it through the wiring diagram to see where it gets lost.
Read the earlier explanation and follow the order they are in.
The 3 x12v and an earth on a relay is a red herring as it is not always there depending on what has happened before in the circuit.

HTH
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Re: fuel pump problems..

Post by rich-racing.co.uk »

Don't know if this thread is too old - not got round to looking at the bike much, but there is no spark either.

Might this be a CDI issue as there's no power to the pump, of a spark?

All the lighting etc. has power.

Rich.
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