My Baby went bang.. :(

[Frankiesan]

So just got back from Europe.. did 3.5k+ miles... awsome trip and rappy did really well until I got back.. did 34 extra miles and bang she went..

Well not bang as such more crack...

It'd started making a horrific cracking noise when starting it up.. like fast moving metal hitting other fast moving metal....

Bikes done 25k miles now, I was told at 25k to change the timing chain else it could go and cause major issues..

It's a 2002 carb 650 raptor..

So question,

Do we think it more likely to be starter motor gone causing issues to the rest of the bike (I did try to bump start it and it wouldn't have it..)

Or do we think the timing chain / timing chain tentioner has gone and my engine went bye bye?

Either way it'll be a week or 2 before I can get it apart and start the diagnosis..

[Brendan1983]

I had the cam chain tensioners give up on me at about 16,000 miles - had them replaced and my garage told me they're always the first thing to go on the SV motor and usually the cause of much worse happening if they're not changed. Did you notice any unusual rattles before?

I hope it's just the starter though, for your wallets sake. I'd imagne though if it was just the starter bumping would work.

[Frankiesan]

Just a similar niose when I started it (metal against metal kind of cracking niose) which went away straight away once the bike was running.

Think it is the tentioner, so if it's bent valves and fubar'd pistons I'll be either searching for a new 650 carb'd engine or trying to convert to fuel injected depending which works out cheaper..

Gonna go out on a limb here and assume that a TLs engine wouldn't fit in a 650 I'd be one very very happy bunny if it would though.. hate gettingting to 120 and seeing people just bugger off as it runs out of steam..

[pod]

I think it is the starter motor/ starter clutch assembly, they are known to fail on SV motors.
Do some detective work, remove the spark plugs, put the bike in a high gear and try turning the motor with the back wheel have a mate listen around the motor for noises. Major engine failure like big ends doesnt usually happen at start up .
Now remove the starter motor, 2 long bolts at the front of the motor, try again, note any differences.
The LHS engine case gives access to the starter motor clutch, try a search on an SV forum like SV650.org for starter probs, its well covered. At 25,000 miles with decent oil changes your motor should be tip top.
Cam chain tensioner failure is usually presaged by a tinkling rattle at tick over, this doesnt mean immediate failure though.Timing chain change at such a low mileage should not be needed, my 650 has over 40,000 miles on it , and hasnt needed a chain or tensioners yet, I did hear them rattle a bit once but they sorted themselves out, they only rattle when they havent popped out properly to tension the chain.

If the starter checks draw a blank, lift the cam covers and have a peak at the timing chains, if they are still there and not slack thenfine, if not , its time for some spending.
My moneys on the starter motor.
Pod

[pod]

Starter failure info
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php? ... otor+noise

[Frankiesan]

Cheers pod! I'll look at that on Friday after tryin to fix the car me thinks.. ur a star!

It didn't happen on startup, it made a similar noise on start-up.

It happened on the downgear from bout ahem MPH on a steep down hill. went 5th, 4th, 3rd - dead.

Serious about the TLs engine would it fit in the 650 frame? (Yes I know I'm being a cheapskate and should just buy a rap thou but it's more fun to make it ursen..)

[pod]

What you describe is an over rev incident, expect bent valves and piston damage.

Your starter is probably fine.
I got the wrong end of the stick, sorry.
If you exceeded the rev limit and the valves said hello to the piston then thats it Im afraid.
Peer in the plug hole with the cam covers off, see if all the valves still open and close when the motor is turned over, any bent valves will stick part open with the cam lobes clear of the valve buckets.

[pod]

Fitting a thou motor is theoretically possible , but you will also need thou injectors, wiring loom, fuel tank, zorsts and airbox, very spendy.
Easier to get a 2nd hand SV650 motor from a breakers, straight swap for about £400.

[Frankiesan]

..

[Frankiesan]

Hey Guys and gals,

So now it's undercover and I finally build the courage up to take a look at her.

Taken steps suggested above, then followed the natural progression to taking off the generator cover to check the starter out and try get a look at camchain whilst there..

As soon as the cover was off issues became apparent. The large cog behind the magneto is missing 9 teeth!! 6 in one spot, two in another and one on it's own. On the magneto it's self, the raised metal squares that pass under the sensor (Which is on the inside of the generator cover). look rather shall we say gouged. Maybe from one of sed teeth getting stuck between it and the sensor is damaged also.

So, engine turns at the crank and can see the cam chain for the front cyclinder going round (a good sign I hope). Now unfortunately I've been unable to find all the teeth (still need to drain the oil pan) checked the oil filter too but nothing in there.
Plan is to next take the starter motor out as it seems to have space for one or two of the missing teeth to fit in. I quitely hope and prey they are in there. (Where else could they have gone anyone?) Spied some other holes they could've gone down, into the clutch area??

Any advice on why that cog would've stripped teeth?

How to find the missing ones??

What is the big cog called?

What is the sensor called?

How much is a new magneto thing?

Is the magneto differrent from the SV one in anyway? I'm basing allot on the assumption that those metal squares and one long rectangle, activate the sensor telling the engine to fire. I'm pretty sure that firing order can affect performance (I 'heard but never actaully read that the raptor is slighty more tuned (1 or 2 bhp) than a standard sv650 but this maybe due to different carbs or intake or a complete fantasy??)

Any and all help / advice / input would be greatly appreciated as I really miss my little baby

[pod]

Wow,
look on the bright side , the rest of the motor should be OK, if, it didnt run after the stray steel appeared.
As to why it failed? dunno, maybe one tooth came off, messed up the ignition pickup, upset the timing then a backfire caused more teeth to fail, just guessing.
What you call the magneto is an "alternator", a magneto is a self contained spark generator that needs no battery.
I would call the large gear with the missing teeth a starter ring but I could be wrong.
The sensor is the "ignition pickup" it tells the ignition system what position the crank is in then the brain "ECU" adjusts the spark timing to the ignition coils.
You should be able to get the stuff you need from a similar age SV 650.
The Rap 650 tuning is identical to the SV 650, the only difference is the exhaust system which is a little freer breathing, carb settings, airbox , ignition system etc are stock SV650.
You need a special rotor extractor to take off the centre part of the alternator, a Suzuki dealer should have it.
The folks on the SV650.org forums will help heres a link to the tech forum.
http://forums.sv650.org/forumdisplay.ph ... 6de8&f=111.

Post your pics there, I havent doone this job myself , these folks will give good tech advise.
Cheers
Pod

[pod]

This thread deals with a failure similar to yours,
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php? ... ar+failure

[Frankiesan]

Cheers pod, Your a star for all the help you've offered.

Is there anyway into the lower part of the engine (sump plug area) without spliting the motor? Also whats the tool called for removing the spring mounted bolt on the clutch side of the engine called? Does this need to be removed to get the case off? (might need to have a goosey in there for any missing teeth.

Thanks again folks

[bazzywazz]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CLUTCH-SET-STARTE ... 4838a21645


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SUZUKI-SV650-SV-6 ... 3ef60a63b8

[Frankiesan]

Cheers Baz,

Live rnd the corner from Jordons (first link) which is odd.

Is the 2nd on right? It appears the big cog on mine is free to ove both backward and forward on the shiney surface it sit's on. (won't know for sure until I get it off) Is the starter clutch the same on the carb'd and FI models?